PWA gets owned in test matches

[cfbliveshere]

So last night I finally got to download the IWW pack and see what you guys have put together for your respective feds. I must say it was pretty cool seeing everyone's own take on a promotion.

I figured I would set up some exhibition sims to see how some of my guys would fare against other top talent in the IWW. All I can say is my guys got there asses handed to them big time, lol.

Now I didn't really know how high the points parameters for some of the other feds were. I had based my guys off of a if your below a 100 your pretty much a opener type guy. Then I have guys who range between mostly 100 and 140 as mid card types and my main eventers (like 1 at this point) lol who is at about 195 or something like that. The matches I simmed had the following results

PWNStar took on Chris Hamerlik - It was a decent match but I thought it may go longer but it lasted up until the 15 minute mark with the IWW Champ superkicking the Canadian Hero for the win. I thought OK not bad he hung in there and it was a competitive match.

PerfectShawn vs Bruce Chan - Chan got owned! I really like the look of PerfectShawn but mad the guy is loaded with moves. Chan got in some offense but just got his Jackie Chan wannabe ass kicked,lol. Match onyl lasted 9 minutes.

Moose Mask vs Mountain Dewd - Another big ownage fest, as the Moose man was kicking ass and crossing roads with reckless abandon. Dewd never really got in any offense and it ended at around the 7 minute mark.

Kodo Akino vs King Edward the Great - I thought OK this should be a decent match. I mean Edward pretty much had dominated all his test matches with the regular PWA roster. Now the King is an old guy so he was winded by the 8 minute mark. But that's how I made him. But he just never seemed to have control of the match and went down fairly easily around the 11 minute mark.

PerfectShawn vs Hamerlik - Was an awesome match. It now seemed like these two were even when compared to the Shawn/Chan match. Tons of great spots and just an all around good match. Hamerlik wound up pulling it out around the 25 minute area.

Mystery Mask vs Danny McGee - LOL not even close here. The Masked man dominated...just, I can't even it was plain ugly here.

OK, so after that experiment I noticed the only guy who hung in there or was able to give a good match was Hamerlik in his two contests. Now I looked at the total points of the guys who got matched up and some are way lower then their opponents.

Like I said most of my guys right now are either opener types or middle of the road or lower then that types. No one really exceeds 140 points except for Hamerlik since he's based around being the top main event guy ( at least for right now). So my question is what exactly can I do about this? I was hoping my guys would mesh well with the Alliance members and at least have some solid matches. But right now the only guy that seems capable of this is Hams.

Do you guys think its my total points here or maybe the logic? I don't care if my guys lose I just want them to have good matches that are entertaining. Where exactly point wise do you guys rank openers, low card, mid card, maine eventers? I almost feel like I need to start from scratch now since most of my guys seem like a bunch of jobbers,lol.

Any pointers you guys can give would be much appreciated. Thanks.

Oh and I forgot to ask so we don't use rope breaks in the IWW? Not to be a pain in the ass but I kind of don't mind the rope breaks since it adds to the realism and overall flow of a match. At least I feel it does. It can be the difference from a guy who takes and ass whooping to getting out of that pin he probably wouldn't kick out of or breaking that submission that would end the match and maybe somehow making a comeback to pull out a win. Just my two cents is all.

[Desertpunk23]

No rope break was voted in back in the day, we can always have a re-vote but I doubt it'd change, rope break is fairly hated by most simmers because of the glitch.

But it does look bad when they are clearly in the ropes and there still a 3 count imo.

we also voted in the parameter max
( 4 Edits per Roster that are over 205 Parameter
( No edit can exceed 260 Parameter

but Parameters aren't everything, look at Hairysacz Edit Shango, he's a low 160 something last i checked and he's a beast and 1 half of the IWW Tag champions.

you also have to realize with so many edits theres no way in hell they'll all mesh. Like my edit Kodo Akino, he is based off Kodo Fuyuki and he wrestles as such, against the right guy he can have a 30 minute classic, against someone he doesn't mesh with he'll either get killed, or do the killing.

If your wanting to see what makes a main eventer in the IWW though i'd say copy guys like PWNStar and Sonic Boom and study there logic.

[cfbliveshere]

That's cool . I figured the rope break thing was voted on when all this got started. But what do you mean by the glitch?

I truthfully could not see simming a match without the rope break. I mean if I want a squash match or something then maybe no rope break. But I feel it can also help when your writing up a story and say the champ loses but then at the next show your commish comes out and says well so and so actually had his foot on the rope (if your close to them) and we need to give him back the belt. But that is niether here nor there.

As for the logic I normally have my guys build up to bigger moves. But I also just learned from reading an old Geese post on the FPC board that the column labeled stunned actually means like near death. So I will have to go back and check things out.

I do agree with so many edits they are not all going to have classic matches. I will just have to take a look at how I should distribute points and probably up my mid card guys to to 150-160 range. I just hate giving guys to many points because it makes me feel like I'm loading them up. Thanks for the input.

[Desertpunk23]

The glitch on the rope break is about when a edit is pinned near the ropes but clearly away from them but the ref still breaks the fall.

[redtide]

Indeed, I have to say logic might factor in huge here. The first version of Noak was 153 facing off against Conor whom was 185 at the time. Noak took it to him fairly easy because he had the right logic that, combined with his parameters, made him an ass kicking machine.

[wholenothalevel]

Ummm dude, I'm not trying to be rude but I'm going to be straight up....take a look at edits not only in the IWW, but FPCPP, most of the edit packs released on FPC, and even older feds such as Royal Ring, and EFW. The general rule of thumb is that 200 is the max params for an edit, with the average edit being in the 120-160 range. If you want to be competitive with the edits on the pack you'll need to adjust params (particularly defensive ones) some, and probably logic too. Both Pwnstar and Perfectshawn are my edits and their logic/movesets are sound. Pwn can be a little dominating but he's a multi-time world champion in both text based and video game feds.

But I'm not saying that your edits don't have good logic, people view things differently, and this has often been the struggle of these types of feds, because different people have different ideals when it comes to edit making. If you're happy with the way your edits compete with one another and don't want to change that, that's ok too. It's not like our edits constantly compete against one another.

As far as rope breaks are concerned, we can vote over and over but most people will choose to leave them off, it severely handicaps edits that have top rope flying finishers.

[cfbliveshere]

Yeah, it really does pertain to everyone has a different idea of the points make the edit type thing. I may look into changing it or not, truthfully I like how my edits play together and feel if I start upping parameters it will take away from the vision I had when creating these.

I never like to load a guy up to much points. But then again this is my first e-fed I created so I guess I have much still to learn. I kind of just followed the rule of thumb main eventers should be around 190-210 and mid carders can range anywhere from 130-170.

I have edits with 140 or 150 edit points that still got beat pretty badly. I noticed quite a few edits had a special skill appointed to them. Now hey that's cool if the guy has a background and a history. But I have seen that a guy with 130 edit points and a special skill can easily launch them to success.

I get what your saying that the edits won't exactly be fighting each other much but isn't that the whole point of this thing? To have talent exchanges, mixed shows and the ppv's each month? Like I said I still have alot to learn in perfecting my creations but I guess its one of those agree to disagree things. Or I just need to realize just because a guy has 175 points doesn't make him the be all end all of edits.

Its just frustrating when you spend all this time making these edits and then when you match them up against some one elses the matches suck and are just not competitive.

[wholenothalevel]

Not every match between every edit is going to be competitive, and your methodology for edit making isn't the same as everyone elses. I think you just need to find a healthy medium. There are some great edits on the pack and some that aren't so great. I personally have created edits and then gone back to look at their logic 6 months later and said "what the hell was I thinking?". Logic and parameters both make and edit.

I think you might have a lot to learn about simming other guys edits, particularly for an e-fed. The general rule is that only the best matches actually get shown. You can have two edits that have a great "boot sim" against one another and then sim them later and it be a squash.

[wwconnection]

Let me start off by saying my IP is banned from FPC, I have never been, lucky me huh. I say that cause you all might wonder who the heck I am, But what I'm getting at is I'm a big fire pro fan and have managed to get my hands on a lot of packs thanks to some friends. I gotta say that "sound logic" can be really boring at time, punch, kick, body slam ect. No flare, no surprise just entire feds of Dean Malenkos and Benoits.

I mean the average match in real life outside of ROH goes about 10 minutes, and sometimes they bust out huge moves early on and it still plays perfectly into the ring psychology.

[cfbliveshere]

Oh damn...OK now after what you guys are saying it makes perfect sense. Most of my edits are well kind of cookie cutter. Meaning they pretty much all work the same way with building up to there big moves. Shit, I never realized maybe IDK maybe one guy could be a spot monkey while the other isn't. I really do have a lot to learn though since its no as easy as just make said guy, create moveset, create logic, and done.

And yes, your right each sim is very different. I simmed Hmaerlik vs Sonic Boom 3 times last night. 1st match was a squash by boom. Second was a squash by Hams. And the third was pretty competitive. I guess I was just going under the assumption if the match is not a competitve then maybe I failed at my edits. But now I see I really should go back and think about each one's personality and how they would work a match.

Thanks everyone this sure has helped me figure out well alot, haha.

[Desertpunk23]

You guys over think this stuff sometimes lol,

just look at your fed like a real promotion and how you'd run it.

You need tech guys
You need high flyers
You need submission experts
You need powers guys
You need Brawlers
You need a couple monsters.

maybe some Luchadors, so underdog characters. Maybe a Japanese tag team, or even someone like William Regal and a european style.

[redtide]

You said it DP. Variety is the spice of wrestling! If everyone worked the same it would be boring. Even within my own fed some people don't work so well together because their respective styles clash (HA, zing!). It may take a smidge cfb, but as you continue to tweak your edits and such you will get them down to where they have kick ass matches with EACH OTHER, which is what's important first, I think, since it is your fed.

[cfbliveshere]

Actually I spent the little time I had free this weekend from work just checking out numerous edits against mine in some test matches. And its pretty much not as bad as I thought it was at first glance. Rent-A-Ninja and Bruce Chan had pretty good match. And Chan who is like a mid/upper card type guy for me won the match around the 15 min area.

So now after realizing guys like Pwnstar and PerfectShawn are main event type guys it makes perfect sense that they were beating my mid card type guys pretty handily. I actually like PerfectShawn alot and love his look and character so maybe I could get him to work some matches in my promotion in the future? Anyways I should have my main 30 or so guys hopefully finished by this week. I am putting in my order today for a Gamebridge so hopefully I will have time to sim my first ever card and get on the interwebz for you guys to enjoy. I will try to find time to stream it live but with me working 7 days a week that probably won't happen at the moment.

Just got one question for you all though. So I know in the IWW matches no rope break is used. But do you all not use the rope break feature in your fed? I like to use it just because I feel it helps add to the realism or story depending on how I play it out. But I figured I would just see what everyone else does.

[Desertpunk23]

Your fed can have whatever rules you want, but for official IWW matches we use the IWW rules as they where voted on.

[redtide]

I use rope breaks in my fed. I think my time limits differ too, but that's about the only things I have different.